Is now the time for a Christian Utopia? Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/9/2001 10:33 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 18)  
 
  287.1  
 
Source www.gospelcom.net/rbc/odb/odb.shtml
December 9, 2001
No Utopia
Read: John 20:19-31 

Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." John 20:21 

An exhibit at the New York Public Library was titled "Utopia: The Search For The Ideal Society In The Western World." Time magazine called it "a show about failure," noting that Utopia, which has never existed, "is one of the enduring phantoms of the human mind." 

Sometimes the church tries to be a utopian society by welcoming agreeable saints and barely tolerating offensive sinners. Concern for our own well-being overshadows compassion for people without Christ, and we become the exact opposite of what Jesus wants us to be. 

The Gospels tell us that Jesus associated with dishonest businessmen, prostitutes, and people from despised minority groups. He came as a servant to seek and to save the lost, and to do His Father's will in dying for the sins of the world. 

Immediately after Jesus' resurrection, His disciples were assembled behind locked doors (John 20:19). But Jesus appeared in their midst and gave them this charge: "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you" (v.21). 

The disciples got the message, unlocked the doors, and went out boldly with the love and salvation of Christ. We are called to do the same. DCM 

Lord, help us see, through transformed eyes,
A world of people in despair,
And help us reach them with Your love,
To show them that we really care. Sper

Keep the faith, but not to yourself.

  
FOR FURTHER STUDY
How Can I Break The Silence? rbc@gospelcom.net
2001 RBC Ministries--Grand Rapids, MI 49555 

Our Daily Bread is a daily devotional provided by RBC Ministries
for spiritual growth and Bible study



David A. Brown
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  From:  Zebra30   12/12/2001 6:15 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 18)  
 
  287.2 in reply to 287.1  
 
Nice post, David. I would like to say that I believe that a Utopia of sorts is coming one day, but it will not be through the artifice of man. Jesus Christ Himself will bring it about through His personal return to the Earth to set up His Millennial Kingdom. That's what I mean by a coming "Utopia". 
  
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  From:  fredCdobbs1   12/17/2001 3:39 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (3 of 18)  
 
  287.3 in reply to 287.2  
 
Yeah Right, every generation has expected that fairystory to happen in their lifetime, yet it never has , never will, for unlike the movies such tall tales written by men do NOT come true in real life! 
Get on with this life, the only one you really know, put aside childish tales and live your life as a decent responsible human being, not a chaser of fairytales.
 
  
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  From:  Alexander G. Thwarpton (GOD_IS_KING)   12/17/2001 7:35 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 18)  
 
  287.4 in reply to 287.1  
 
I would just like to comment: 
The true uptopia is the Kingdom of Heaven that Our Lord has Promised us. No earthly power could come CLOSE to God's Kingdom where he reigns soverign.
 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/17/2001 9:23 pm  
To:  fredCdobbs1   (5 of 18)  
 
  287.5 in reply to 287.3  
 
That's true enough, Fred, that people have been predicting the return of Jesus Christ to this earth for several millenia, but that doesn't negate the legitimacy of the doctrine. And besides, I am living a productive life as a responsible human being which makes me all the more want to live in expectancy of my Lord's soon return. And your calling it a fairytale betrays a certain arrogance. And this is getting off the subject somewhat, but what do you call your evolution stories? 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/17/2001 9:35 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (6 of 18)  
 
  287.6 in reply to 287.5  
 
Hi Zebra,

 

Sorry about the rude post addressed to you. I would normally have deleted such a rude post but I decided that since you are such a Mature Christian that you would want to reply.

 

And by the way your reply is superb!

 

Good Points from you and God_is _King that a Utopia Does Exist and is coming but not by the hands, thought, might or intellect of man but by the Certain capabilities of Jesus, and Ill be seeing you there!

 

God Bless You,

Your Brother in Jesus,

David



David A. Brown
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  From:  fredCdobbs1   12/18/2001 8:05 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (7 of 18)  
 
  287.7 in reply to 287.5  
 
Evolution STORIES??? Science discards info which can be proven wrong and keeps on searching. Creationists disregard evidence which flies in the face of their belief, and just keep banging that bible. There is the difference. 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/19/2001 9:59 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 18)  
 
  287.8 in reply to 287.6  
 
Oh that's okay, David. I expect those kinds of comments from sceptics and lukewarm Christians. In fact, doesn't the Bible mentioned the fact that we would be hated of all nations for His (meaning Jesus') name sake, or words to that effect? Really, we should look to be ridiculed and ostracized for the cause of Christ because He said that that would happen. To tell you the truth, we should be concerned when there is no ridicule. As you well know, being a true, born-again blood bought Christian has never been popular so I kinda look for the kinds of comments that the sceptic posted to me. So, so long 'til next time. 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/19/2001 10:15 pm  
To:  fredCdobbs1   (9 of 18)  
 
  287.9 in reply to 287.7  
 
What're you talking about, Fred? Scientists can't agree among themselves about evolution. I understand that many of the most prominent evolutionists themselves now debunk Darwin's theories. And talking about banging the Bible, I'd say the same about evolutionists who won't let competing theories about life's origins have a hearing in our public forums, especially in our schools. I understand that evolutionists got apoplectic about the attempt of creation speaker Ken Hamm and his group's attempt to build a creation science museum in (I believe) Kentucky. Why Fred? Why won't you let an opposing view be heard in our schools? Why are you so ready to believe the most preposterous things about yourself, such as that you were descended from lower forms of life? Do you really think that there is no difference between you and that chimp you see at the zoo or that orangutan? I'll tell you this much; I'll never believe that I am anything less than a specially created being made in the image of God. So, I'll just say that I'll hang onto my (you say) "fairy tales" as you call them and you can just hang onto yours. Deal? 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/20/2001 5:30 am  
To:  Zebra30   (10 of 18)  
 
  287.10 in reply to 287.9  
 
Good Postings Zebra30!!

 

Keep up the Good Witness. I enjoy your witnessing  knowing that we receive the approval of those in Heaven by our Good and Faithful witness!

 

God Bless You,

David 



David A. Brown
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  From:  fredCdobbs1   12/20/2001 8:09 am  
To:  Zebra30   (11 of 18)  
 
  287.11 in reply to 287.9  
 
bEING A CREATIONIST---REAL MEANING; "CREATED FROM ANCIENT FAIRYTALES OF FEAR DRIVEN SUPERSTITIOUS OLD GOAT HERDERS" You refuse to give credence to scientists who sift thru and use or discard information, always keeping their eye on investigating to seek answers. If we came from lower forms, so be it. 
Creationists however, just disregard evidence that does not conform to their particular belief---it's as if we were living in Galileos day when the churches were in charge of goverments and would not beliebe that the earth rotated around the sun because that was not the way it was "taught"--so I imagine with proof positive you would still cling to your fAIRYTALE VERSIONS AND KEEP US IN THE "DARK AGES" FOREVER ! 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/21/2001 10:00 pm  
To:  fredCdobbs1 unread  (12 of 18)  
 
  287.12 in reply to 287.11  
 
You still haven't answered my question, Fred. Why are you so ready to believe the most incredible and preposterous things about yourself? Why are you so willing to believe the findings of many times questionable scientists rather than the words of those that often lived through the events depicted in the Bible? Just because someone has a string of letters behind their names doesn't mean that they are necessarily smart or wise. 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/21/2001 10:17 pm  
To:  fredCdobbs1 unread  (13 of 18)  
 
  287.13 in reply to 287.11  
 
I'd say the same thing about evolutionists who keep competing views about life's origins out of the public arena. You'd do the same things that you accuse me of doing because.....well,....why don't you just admit what's really bothering you about the creationist viewpoint? Isn't the real reason you don't buy the idea of intelligent design is because you want the freedom to act like an animal? I mean, if there is no intelligent design then there is no Designer. And if there is no Designer, then really you can do whatever the heck you want because you have to answer to no one but yourself. That's what really appeals to you, doesn't it? And yes, it does matter where we came from because the answer has so much more than the immediate question at stake. Mankind's very survival depends on the answer. So, if you can just get your nose out of the air for a moment, think about what I've said. 
  
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  From:  CRAW81   12/21/2001 10:17 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (14 of 18)  
 
  287.14 in reply to 287.12  
 
Easy, Just because fundie types believe in fairytales men concocted thousands of years ago when fear and superstition ruled is no reason for me you or anyone to accept such silliness today. You may believe that a big fish swallowed Jonah and that he was regurgitated days later none the worse for wear---You swallow that tale---I do not---Now we have the story of Red Riding hood who visited Granma and was eaten by the wolf {along with Grandma}who was later chopped open by a woodsman, and Red and Granny emerged non the less for wear---Does that tale sound FAMILIAR?? DO YOU BELIEVE IT?? nO?? GOOD, NEITHER DO I --NOW we are geeting somewhere. Please realize if the Red story was written back in jesus day, it would most likely be included in scripture and taken as a miracle or a lesson that you would be quoting. 
I'm trying to be helpful here , showing that possibly people have been so gullible for so long , that questioning scripture would seem a good thing. CRAW
 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/21/2001 10:32 pm  
To:  CRAW81   (15 of 18)  
 
  287.15 in reply to 287.14  
 
No, CRAW81. You're not trying to be helpful. You're just trying to be nasty and arrogant by putting down those of us who refuse to accept YOUR version of a fairytale that a fish somehow became a lizard which became an ape which then became a man (or however you characters put your story). I don't mean to generalize, but you know-it-all types display an appalling lack of humility when discussing life's origins with those of a religious background (what's a fundie, by the way?). Okay, so maybe you don't believe the story about Jonah being swallowed by a whale, but just because you don't believe doesn't meant that it couldn't have happened. I mean, scientists can't necessarily prove everything in the universe. They are fallible human beings, after all.  
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/21/2001 10:35 pm  
To:  CRAW81   (16 of 18)  
 
  287.16 in reply to 287.14  
 
I forgot to ask; what's Red Riding Hood got to do with the story of life's origins?  
  
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  From:  CRAW81   12/22/2001 7:28 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (17 of 18)  
 
  287.17 in reply to 287.13  
 
>>>And if there is no Designer, then really you can do whatever the heck you want because you have to answer to no one but yourself. That's what really appeals to you, doesn't it? And yes, it does matter where we came from because the answer has so much more than the immediate question at stake. Mankind's very survival depends on the answer. So, if you can just get your nose out of the air for a moment, think about what I've said. 
My nose is not in the air--dont talk so foolish--I have only myself to answer to as you do---My life is all I have, so I do not think of" doing whatever the hell I please" my life runs a nice clear pattern of concern for myself, my family, my friends, my community. I obey mans laws, contibute to the more unfortunate and am a generally accepted good citizen----I may occassionally jay-walk, but that is the extent of my criminality. I live this way because I KNOW its the only life I have---none have ever given proof of any other. 

You, on the other hand are probably the "wild one", for you can do any sort of evil and mischief and be forgiven for it at the last minute and still get your Pie in the Sky, so you think!----Tell me now with those examples , which of us is more likely to lead the better life?? I choose reality, you choose fairyland, and are smug enough about it to put up a holier than thou attitude about it. 

There is no reason to believe that a superior being would have any sound reason for for creating a tiny dot {earth} in a huge universe and then create man to play fear/ reward games with. And then your god/myth handicaps all of mankind with the laughable "Original Sin"--please sir/mam if we are going to discuss this try to be openminded and show up with evidence, not tired old tales with no proof whatsoever. Thnx for your ear. 
 
  
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   From:  CRAW81   12/22/2001 7:36 pm  
To:  Zebra30   (18 of 18)  
 
  287.18 in reply to 287.16  
 
>>>I forgot to ask; what's Red Riding Hood got to do with the story of life's origins? <<< 
Sheesh, if you dont catch on to the comparison, how and what do you use to distinguish??? 

1. Red Riding Hood---silly tale of people being eaten by a wolf and coming out unharmed 

2. Jonah----silly tale of a person being swallowed by a big fish and coming out unharmed---no need to go further if you havent read and understood the comparisons of ridiculous stories I made!! 

 
  
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